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Facebook can bite my ass.

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  • moetownmoetown Posts: 2,307
    Yeah, most real jobs suck. I so wish I could figure out a way to be self-employed and make enough to manage my bills.
  • moetownmoetown Posts: 2,307
    I’ve seen websites telling me I can work from home and make a ton of money working just a few minutes a day!
  • LefunesteLefuneste Posts: 5,764
    edited February 6
    You could sell your ass on chaturbate.

  • Jurf_WurburJurf_Wurbur Posts: 4,046
    I am definitely in the camp of Believe Women. I also think when it comes to previous generations where people didn't feel free to speak up, we should be willing to take seriously when these allegations come to us second hand through family and friends. I also think there will still be cases where, for whatever reason, even those people didn't feel empowered to speak up for other people, so all we get are rumors. And I think we have to take those seriously when they come up over and over again, because sometimes that's how these things get out. (Like with Louis CK.)

    But the more steps removed we get, the less we really know. And it's interesting to see people treat Kirk Douglas Is a Rapist as a fact upon his death. Yeah, there is that rumor. There is also a long standing rumor that he was secretly the Black Dahlia killer. It happens to be I think the first one is probably true and the second one isn't.

    But watching how different people address this is interesting.
  • captqitncaptqitn Posts: 2,767
    Huh. My algorithm didn't show me any of that.

    On a related tip, my friend just wrote up a Louis CK show he went to with a certain amount of guilt and trepidation. It's entertaining and concise.

    These are the words that you click on.
  • LefunesteLefuneste Posts: 5,764
    edited February 6
    That's about the Nathalie Wood rape story, right? Even if Douglas raped her, that must have happened in the early 50s. If true, it's scandalous and shocking and wrong and shit but it happened 70 years ago. And now both the people involved are dead and all we have are rumors. But hey, the internets need to keep people clicking away, so let's revive that old story!
  • LefunesteLefuneste Posts: 5,764
    edited February 6
    I still like Polansky's movies. I still love Annie Hall, Zelig and Sweet and Lowdown. I still think Louis Ferdinand Celine was a great writer. Louis Ck still makes me laugh. I will still watch Spartacus and Paths of Glory with pleasure, even if Kubrick was an asshole and Douglas was a rapist.

    Yeah, people can be shitty human beings and great artists. Go figure!

  • Jurf_WurburJurf_Wurbur Posts: 4,046
    I think art kind of talks to us about how we live, so sometimes that stuff does disqualify for me.

    I certainly have lost interest in seeing Woody Allen hit on teenagers.
  • LefunesteLefuneste Posts: 5,764
    edited February 6
    Reading a book written by a creep or watching a movie with a rapist in it doesn't excuse the creep or exculpate the racist. I think it's important to separate the art from the artist. I also think it is important to remember that people are fallible, that the world is complicated and that it is often unfair to judge people from the past by today's moral standards.
  • captqitncaptqitn Posts: 2,767
    Yes, it's always a tricky threading of the needle. It seems to come down to how revolting you find the act to be, how much of a fan of the work you are, and how much time has passed. I'm not sure any of us would blink if we found out that Raphael was a kid toucher.

    Maybe blink, but certainly not feel obligated to avoid looking at his art.
  • LefunesteLefuneste Posts: 5,764
    edited February 6
    I'll admit it, I'm totally unfair regarding that: if I don't like an artist and it turns out that the artist is guilty of something shitty, it becomes one more reason to not like him and I'll congratulate myself for my good taste and judgement. But if it's someone I like who's guilty of something, well, I'm all like "one must separate the art from the artist" and yada-yada. Total double standard.

    But then again, I'm not the police and I'm not a member of a jury, so who gives a shit what I think, eh?
  • LefunesteLefuneste Posts: 5,764
    edited February 6
    It's like people have a fear of moral contamination or something! You know, if you're not already a racist, reading the word "nigger" in Huckleberry Finn won't turn you into one.

    And I always have the sneaking suspicion that those who are the most ferocious advocates of "cancelling" someone accused of a sexual impropriety are probably getting off on rape porn when by themselves...
  • Jurf_WurburJurf_Wurbur Posts: 4,046
    edited February 6
    It's also highly relevant how their transgression relates to their work and how that fits into society.

    I mean, if you painted landscapes three hundred years ago and you molested kids I can still probably enjoy the trees and shit. Because the flowers you paint don't make me think of abused kids and that water color you left behind probably isn't inspiring any pedos.

    If you're Ryan Adams and you write songs about how your tortured artist heart sometimes makes you feel unkind to women and it, uh turns out you're a serial abuser and you're putting that music out into a culture/era already lousy with dudes who feel entitled to treat women like shit... I can probably nope right the fuck on out of there.
  • LefunesteLefuneste Posts: 5,764
    edited February 6
    If you're Ryan Adams and you write songs about how your tortured artist heart sometimes makes you feel unkind to women and it, uh turns out you're a serial abuser and you're putting that music out into a culture/era already lousy with dudes who feel entitled to treat women like shit... I can probably nope right the fuck on out of there.
    Word.

    But then again, I've never liked Ryan Adams, so... Shrug.
  • Jurf_WurburJurf_Wurbur Posts: 4,046
    The thing with Louis is similar to Cosby, because they're both hectoring, sanctimonious people who wanted to offer cultural commentary on what it means to be a good person, while being sexual predators off stage.
  • LefunesteLefuneste Posts: 5,764
    edited February 6
    Mmmm, I have to disagree with you there, Jeff: I've seen several of Louis CK shows, and I never got the holier-than-thou vibe from him. In fact, he often played the creep with weird sexual hangups on stage: when I heard the accusations, I was like, ok, so it's not an act! And he likes to get laughs by saying out loud things that are supposed to be unsayable. Also, to me at least, there's a big difference between jerking off in front of women (creepy and wrong) and drugging them into unconsciousness and then raping them (downright premeditated evil).
  • Jurf_WurburJurf_Wurbur Posts: 4,046
    I always read Louis's schtick as being fearless enough to call out his own foibles, but doing so in a way that was meant to indict us all.

    It turns out he wasn't being brave enough to admit his minor failings, he was confessing to lesser crimes to try and feel better about being an actual creep.

    It definitely ruins him for me.
  • LefunesteLefuneste Posts: 5,764
    edited February 6
    Ok, I get that. But, you know, "one must separate the art from the artist" and yada-yada... :P
  • captqitncaptqitn Posts: 2,767
    Did the pull quotes in my friend's piece make a difference to you at all? I appreciated that he seems to now see that the self rationalization he fed himself at the time was garbage. I think that's growth.

  • LefunesteLefuneste Posts: 5,764
    edited February 6
    I think it's important to consider what he is accused of doing: jerking off in front of unwilling women. Sure, wrong and ewww. But kind of pathetic and petty, basically a misdemeanor, in my opinion. It's not up to me to decide if the public humiliation he was submitted to, if having to drop out of the circulation for a couple of years, is enough punishment, but if it was up to me, I would say yes. But then again, the guy makes me laugh, so...
  • Jurf_WurburJurf_Wurbur Posts: 4,046
    edited February 7
    I'd get tomatoed over this in most progressive circles, but I did actually see a path out for Louis. (I'm mostly tentatively okay with Aziz Ansari now, for instance.) But I think he blew it from the word go.

    He may be reflective enough to understand his new position and to have a sense that he put himself there. But he's never acknowledged how much he fucked up those comediennes' lives by having his manager have them blacklisted. He's never even seemed sorry about that.
  • Jurf_WurburJurf_Wurbur Posts: 4,046
    I'm rewatching the early years of NuWho with Simon now. How middle aged am I? Watching it the first time, I thought Rose was hot. Watching it in my mid-40's, she looks like somebody's kid. Her mom, well... terrible look they gave her, but... I can see it.
  • moetownmoetown Posts: 2,307
    edited February 7
    I don't need the entertainers/artists I like to be role models and I don't feel a need to boycott their stuff when it comes out that they're awful human beings. I knew just from having read about Phil Specter that he was absolutely bonkers. Then he murders an actress, but that doesn't make me stop appreciating his "wall of sound."

    I still like Roman Polanski. The guy's pregnant wife was Mansonized. I'll cut him some slack for being on drugs and lacking good judgement.

    I was disappointed that Woody Allen's last movie was dropped by Amazon. He's not even in his films anymore, so you don't have to see him. I guess in Woody Allen's case, I don't accept Ronan Farrow's accusations about his dad as fact.

    I think Mel Gibson and Tom Cruise are total jerks, but I've watched a few of their recent action flicks.

    I’m pretty certain that a lot of the people in bands I’ve liked have had sex with underage girls, but the fact that I believe that doesn’t make me stop listening to them.

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